Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call on this lovely, let's see, September 15th, 2026. Show all I have to do is dial 877-207-2276.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call. And. Let's see if we can talk about a lot of things.

So, I didn't do any obstreperous entertainment with the heretics out there, but I did work on an article today and released an article. On is it ever okay to rebuke someone sharply for their heresies? And you know, I thought, I wonder. I did a little bit of research yesterday, but then I really worked on it today and I finished the article today, and I was surprised. Yeah, there was quite a bit of admonition and actually warning to do that very thing.

And so I thought it was interesting, and to melt it over a little bit of it just to do that. But uh yeah, the Bible definitely does tell us to um To warn people and to go against the false teachers. And Yeah, I'm thinking here because You see, I was at this conference over the weekend in Southern California. It was a really good conference. And And about 700 people showed up.

Really good. I'm gonna Let me just put it this way. I asked just three or four really quick questions of the group that I taught just at a particular moment. And they really did well on basic biblical theology. Better than the average crowd.

This was really encouraging, very, very interesting. And so anyway, n not a big deal, but um So, as I said, I had had some conversations with some Eastern Orthodox individuals. And I had to deal with their heresies. And I'm just telling you, flat-out heresy. And I thought what I might do just a little bit now is go over.

some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches in some of their doctrines. And just read to you what they say. What are their doctrines, and go over them. Because I want people to understand why I say what I say about these two religions. They are False religions.

They are false. They're not true religions, okay?

So, um There's uh there's lots of stuff. Uh I wrote a paragraph on Eastern Orthodoxy, and it's like it goes like this. That salvation is not by faith alone, in Christ's work alone, on the cross alone. In other words, it's through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith in works. as Docitheus decreed thirteen.

Therefore the gift of salvation is not a one time event, but a lifelong process, where the believer is transformed by divine grace into the likeness of Christ. This process begins with baptism, not with belief. Not with being born again. but with baptism. And to me, this is so heretically obvious that the transformation of your life begins at a ceremony in their church.

That's what they say. It's a ceremony in their church. And it to me, you know, it just reeks of of just Well, I'll just say it, demonic teaching. Uh Yeah, it just bothers me.

So They go on, it says for the Eastern Orthodox believer, baptism is a washing away and rooting out of original sin. That's confession of Mogilla, question 102. Also, it is in baptism that the believers united with Christ, and by baptism were born again. This is, no, not by baptism we're born again. But anyway, you know, I can go on, but it says.

Go Arch. GoArch is I think it's what is it called? It's the It's an official North American Eastern Orthodox website. It says, Our final judgment will hinge in part on the criterion of good deeds. And also, Orthodox Christians throughout their lives receive salvation and renewal through faith, works, and the sacraments of the church.

Salvation can be lost, they say. That's what all false religions teach. And the reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event, but a process, a lifetime process. St. Paul employs the verb to save in the past tense, present tense, etc.

Yeah. To have part in his salvation we must necessarily be members of his body that is of the Catholic, but that means East Orthodox to them in that context. That's the longer catechism of the East Orthodox Church, question 272. To have part in the salvation, you must necessarily be members of. their church.

This is It's just heresy, okay? Very politely. It's not Christian, it's not good, and it's a false gospel. And so I can go into the Catholic stuff too, but what do we do? When we're talking to them, I believe that, as the scripture says, you be gentle, and so if you teach them, if they are open and they want to work with you and they're entertaining the scriptures, etc., and believe in the gospel, great.

But when they openly preach a false gospel and hinder others from coming in, I found out by studying yesterday and today. According to the scripture, by really focusing on it, that's when a sharp open rebuke is warranted. by scripture. A sharp, open rebuke. In fact, Let me go to Titus chapter 1, verses 10 through uh thirteen.

For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision. Who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. one of themselves, a prophet of their own, said Cretans, are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons. This set testimony is true for this reason. Reprove them severely, so that they may be sound in the faith.

He actually says, reprove them severely. This is what I did over the weekend to the Eastern Orthodox heretics. I reproved them severely, and I said that their teachings were of the Antichrist because they are denying the true gospel and that they're hindering others from coming into the Christian faith. And that when I was preaching the gospel, they would get in, interrupt, and stop it. They are the spirit of the Antichrist, at least these ortho-bros that I encountered.

And it's so. I'm always Glad. to have to go to God's Word to learn something. And that's what I did. And released this article today.

Is it ever okay to sharply rebuke a person? And boy, is it. And there's a lot of scripture on this. Very interesting. Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania.

Elijah, welcome. You are on air. Hey, Matt, how you doing? I just wanted to talk to you since you were talking about the Catholic and Orthodox heresies. I wanted to believe That I had recently learned about, but I think I had misinterpreted it, is what the Ethiopian Orthodox Church believes about Jesus.

I originally thought that these that they only bleed in his divine nature and out of humanity, but I just Did some more research, and it turns out that that's a misconception. They do believe in the humanity and divine nature of Jesus. It's just that. They reject the teaching of Catholic and Orthodox on Jesus having two distinct natures. It says here that they believe.

that Jesus' divine and human nature Or Or uh Uh, fuse together. I'm trying to find the quote. Uh, let's see here. Uh I just had it on. Oh, okay, here it is.

It says: They believe his human and divine natures are joined together perfectly as one unified nature. without separation or change. Yeah, that's heresy. That's a false teaching. And uh um There's a word for it, monothelitism, monophysitism, I think, is one of them that's often used that way.

The blending heresy. Yeah, some say Eutychian, but it's definitely a heresy.

So If they teach that this blended into a third new nature, then he's neither God nor man at that point.

Okay. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm reading it right now. It says that It says that the the Ethiopian Orthodox reject the accusation of monophysitism. It says Because the church is because the church teaches a one nature view, Myophysetism. Other ancient churches sometimes accuse them of monophyatism, this false belief that Jesus only had a divine nature and no real human nature.

Then it goes on to say. uh E Ethiopian Orthodox Church explicitly rejects the teacher You you titists who claim that Jesus human nature was Yes, whose human nature was swallowed up by his divine nature. They maintain that Jesus took real human flesh from the Virgin Mary and lived a truly human life. And quote, Yes.

So uh Okay, now so I'm researching a little bit while we're talking about it. I've never really studied them in depth, but it might be worth me trying that if I ever encounter them. But neophysitism is the issue of one.

Well a composite nature of the divine and human that becomes one nature. No. From what you've read, that's what I understand that they're teaching. And if that's the case, then that is neither divine nature or human nature, it's a third. type of nature.

And this is so heretical that it actually would logically deny the true incarnation and the and the sacrifice of Christ. I can connect the dots if you're interested, if that's what they teach. All right. Yeah, um I I that's what I thought that they were teaching, but um from what's popping up right here and like uh the the part where it says official rejection of that specific heresy is giving me a link to uh an Ethiopian author's website.

So so uh uh you know uh Google AI uh pulled that from their Ethiopian website.

Okay, let me explain why this is a seriously heretical problem.

So, um I'm going to do it slowly. I'm going to introduce this. This is for people who are listening as well. This is why this is so critically important. Let's take a circle, for example.

A circle necessarily has roundness. in its circle. This is an essential property to the circle. And It cannot be the case that it has circularity without roundness. It's essential to it.

Now look, it's this is what we call essential properties. An angel, for example, has a nature, and there are necessary properties that proceed I'll use the word proceed for now from the nature. or in here within the nature. And so if the angel nature ceased to exist, then the properties ceased to exist. If the properties of that angel cease to exist, then there's no more angel of a particular manifestation.

Okay, you with me so far? This makes sense. All right, now so the divine nature of Christ has certain attributes. They are not the same attributes, identically, that is, of human attributes.

So, for example, the divine nature is everywhere, human nature is not. Divine nature is spiritual and and uh omnipresent. You know, that's what I said, and the human nature is not. The uh human uh nature is located and uh has a beginning where the divine nature does not.

So we see necessary characteristics which nature If you have a nature and it ceases to be its nature. then its properties and things related to it also cease. Back in the break, I'll continue with this and put this together, why that doctrine they're teaching is damnable heresy. I'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, but welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Elijah. Elijah, are you still there?

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, so let me just kind of continue.

So it's just a Review just slightly that the properties are related to the nature. Circularity has a property of roundness, squares has a property of corners or right angles. You know, cat has cat-ness and things like that, and trees have treeness, and properties emanate or proceed in here with the nature. All right, now.

So, this means then that the divine nature has certain characteristics that are not. uh human nature. And If you're going to take a human nature and a divine nature and blend them so there's one single new nature, then the new nature is a divine human nature. Nature. It's a third category.

It's not divine. It's not human. It's a new third category, the divine human, which is a blending.

So, it's neither divine nor human. This then denies the person of Christ as being the one who has two natures: a divine nature which does not change and cannot cease, and a human nature which has a beginning and has human characteristics. And that each of those natures has attributes, and the attributes of both natures are ascribed to that one person of Christ. This is correct theology. But neophysitism would say that it's neither divine nor human, but a new third thing, which means the divine nature ceased to have its place in the person of Christ.

And in place of it, and the human nature ceased to have a place in the person of Christ, but a new third nature, a beginning nature. the divine human. Where it's one thing, the divine human nature, new third thing, this then is no longer the true incarnation. And thereby, it denies the true Christ and necessarily denies the true atoning sacrifice.

Okay. Yeah. This is why it's so seriously bad. It's it's a it's a damnable heresy.

Okay. I think they might respond by saying that well, since they believe that the natures are blended together, then that Jesus has divine and human nature, they'll probably still say that he's still both Human and divine. It's just that it's merged instead of separated. How would you answer that? That's Eutychianism, and that they're blended together so you can't distinguish them, but that's not proper to scripture either.

What they're saying is Miophysitism says that it's a new nature. A new thing. That's therefore it's not divine. Because the nature of divinity can't be new. It can't be.

So it's worth me looking into this to see because I'm sure that the theologians within there. Their camp has tried to deal with this issue, and it'd be worth me looking into that to see if I can find certain things out about it. Because they may As is often the case when you start studying stuff like this, when you get into it and you start reading their material, you start finding out that, okay, they're saying it this way, but they shouldn't use those words because they mean as that, and sometimes it just takes a lot of work. And I haven't done that with the Ethiopian group because I so rarely encounter them.

Okay. Yeah. Uh there there's a few uh Ethiopian uh Orthodox uh churches in my city, but I've never I've never actually like uh been been near them before. I've I wanted to visit to like to just like actually like uh you know, you know, uh see see how they do things, but um I've I've never got around to doing it. But um uh there's this uh There's this uh other uh question uh that I do have for you.

So, um Kelly Powers is going to be debating, I think, William Albert soon on this channel that I just discovered. It's called Jesus. I think it's called Jesus Talks. It's going to be, I think, within like the next month or so. And their debate is going to be on whether or not James two hundred twenty four uh refutes uh faith alone and um Uh you know you know you know, I just read the verse.

And if someone someone were to just read that verse by itself, it does seem that. Uh James is Speaking against Faith Alone, but you've got to go into the context and all that stuff. you know, you know, you know, you know, that's where it you know, the worry gets gets deeper. Right, and I've had to debate James 2, 14 through 26 hundreds of times, and I know it well. And I was actually debating it with a Mormon heretic just a couple of days ago, a couple of days ago, and he quoted James 2:24.

He said, A man is justified by works, not by faith alone. I said, What does the previous verse say? And he would not quote it, he would not reference it. Repeatedly, because the previous verse, verse 23, says, And Abraham believed God, it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

Now I said, What was reckoned him as righteousness according to James? And he refused to answer the question. Because it's the answer is faith, or his belief in God, is what was reckoned as righteousness.

So what is going on in James chapter 2 when James himself quotes these references? He says, Abraham believed God. It's because the justification that's being pointed out there is the justification before people, demonstrating that we have real living faith. It's not a refutation or a contradiction to Romans 3.20, Romans 3.28, 4.5, Galatians 2.16 and Philippians 3.9.

So when I quote the other verses I just listed, the false teachers, the heretics, will often go to James 2 and take the verses out of context. You see, you see, man is justified by faith and by works, not by faith alone. Then I I say to them, You just use scripture to contradict scripture. And you don't even understand what James 2 is about. And I've written on it.

You can go to Carmen and read on it.

So it'll be an interesting debate that they're going to have. I've debated it countless times. And my answer is well known. And people do what they can to try and get out of it so that they do that. In fact, with this Mormon heretic that I.

Was debating, I said, okay, so what do you got to do? Have you done enough good works? And he says, Then he rebuked me for asking for how many works you got to do. In other words, when you use his argument against him, then he turns the tables and tries to insult you. And I said, You're the one saying you've got to do good works.

So, are you doing enough good works? Just are you doing enough? No answer. And this is the problem with the false religions that teach that you have to commit your works to Christ in order to achieve salvation combined with what he did on the cross. And are you ever doing enough?

They can never answer it, so that's why they have to go on the attack. because there is no answer for them. Because they don't have the true gospel. And they need to be corrected and rebuked for that politely.

Okay? Uh is your is your debate with him on YouTube? Yeah, it is. That guy, I debated him some time. I don't know.

You know, sometime. In fact, uh, if you were to go to, I think, let's see, let me hold on a sec here. uh carm dot org forward slash debates And uh Control F A L B R Yeah, Matt Slickber's Marion Intercession, William Albright. I debated him then.

So I debated him. Yeah. So that means I guess he's a Catholic. Catholic heretic. You hear the Catholic here.

Yeah, heresy. Yeah. Okay. Hey, there's the music, buddy. You got to go.

Call back if you want to get in line, okay? All right, man. All right, baby. All right, buddy. God bless.

Hey, folks, we're right back after these messages. Bottom of the R. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

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All right, let's get to Aaron from Texas. Aaron, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my question.

I'm curious. Throughout your years of ministry, what are your thoughts on the current rise of What seems to be Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism online.

So I guess I'm just kind of curious. What your thoughts are on a Well, you know. I'm not exactly sure how to articulate what I've been thinking lately because what you're asking, I can give what I think are statistics and common reasons. Hmm. But what's happening lately, as I'm thinking about this very issue, is 2 Thessalonians 2.

Where God sends a deluding influence on people. This issue. I'm wondering I'm thinking out loud. I'm wondering If this is part of The A pastor see being spoken of by Paul And Jesus. and that it's It's uh a fulfillment of prophecy.

of the falling away, and of believing false doctrines. And so, on the spiritual side of things, I'm curious about this. I want to study it more. Let's see what the Bible says. On the practical side, I think um Roman Catholicism has not done a very good job in a lot of areas, and not a lot of people turning away from RC, going to EO.

And the brought up Protestant churches aren't teaching very good biblical theology, and we have a lot of Moronic teachings, and name it and claim it. And a lot of times, at least my experience, it's very subjective, when I go to Protestant churches, when I go to churches and Listen to sermons, they're not very deep. They are low level and not very. Thoroughly examined and interrelated with the truths of God's Word and what that means as us to be Christians before our Lord and Savior Jesus. And I don't find this very much.

And I think, and that's just now, I could be wrong, maybe it's just the churches I've gone to around here. And so I'm not judging all churches or saying that's how it is everywhere. But if that's the case, that is prevalent like that, then I can see why the youth are saying, this isn't feeding me. And so they go to the Protestant churches which teach Mamby Pamby theology, feel goodism, nice warm music, it makes you feel good, and after a while they just feel empty. And so they're going to, it seems to be, as a reaction against emotionalism and entertainment.

They want something more solid. And so the EO comes up and says, We have something going back to the original church. You can connect with us to the original this, the original that. We're the ones. And they don't say it this way, but if you do enough good works and we can help you do good works with our church, you can earn salvation.

And people who are not regenerate, that makes sense to them. And so I suspect that this is what's going on and why it's on the rise.

Okay. Right. Yeah, no, that would make that makes sense. I appreciate the answer. Yeah, it's uh It's really an interesting question.

Question: You've asked, and it's something I've been wondering about. And I first expressed this concern I just raised to you just, I think, yesterday or day before. That I'm very, I'm getting more intrigued about what the Bible says is the coming apostasy. what's included in it. And part of it, which really fascinates me.

Is that God gives them over, He sends a deluding influence on people. He sends it upon them.

So they believe the lie.

So they believe the lie of Roman Catholicism, they believe the lie of Eastern Orthodoxy. And the that possibility fascinates me. It really does. It's intriguing.

Okay. Right. Yeah, I'm curious, if you don't mind, do you find that many who are not Let's say online, or maybe another in person, they're a lay Catholic, lay Orthodox. Do they typically have the same arguments? Is there who are kind of or kind of what they're peddling online currently with these kind of want your church claims.

Yes, what they'll do, the EO and the RC both say the same thing. We're the true church. We have apostolic authority. We have a priesthood. We have the Eucharist.

We have intercession of the saints. And everybody goes, ooh, ah. And none of that is found in the scriptures. They will cite scriptures, but they misuse those. In fact, a Discussion I was having with one of their EO heretics a few days ago was the issue of authority because he said tradition is equal in authority to scripture.

This is what's really fascinating to me. And so I said, How do you know that? He says, Because we get a lineage of our tradition from the Apostles. And I asked, What makes you think a lineage is what makes you authoritative and true? Because just you can say you have and you can trace something back doesn't mean you're true now.

And I'm always trying to get them to go to the scriptures as their final authority, but they don't want to do that. And when they I force them into going to the scripture, say where to say in the Bible, then they'll quote a verse about tradition, saying you gotta listen to tradition, and then they immediately keep talking and over talk so that I can't say, Let's look at it in context, what you just quoted. They don't want that.

So, what they want to do, I've discovered, is use their church as the final authority, and they submit to the church, and their salvation is found in the church, not in the person and work of Christ. This is the great deception that is alive and well in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

So Uh I find it fascinating.

Okay. Right. Well, I appreciate the answer. Thank you. All right, brother.

God bless, man. God bless. Alright. Yeah, it's it's just how it is. It's how it is.

And I firmly 100% believe that East Orthodox Roman Catholic official teachings are Antichrist. They teach a false gospel. And the Bible says in Galatians 1:8, 9, if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what you have preached to you, let him be accursed. And I say to you again, That if anyone teaches a gospel contrary to what you preach to, let him be accursed. Paul says it twice in Galatians 1:8 and 9.

Let him be cursed. for preaching a false gospel. That's what he says. And so they are to be cursed if they preach a false gospel.

Now, we don't want them to be cursed. We want to tell them the truth. We want to work with them to try and get them to believe. But they deny the gospel. And I've noticed many times when I go to preach the gospel to people, the Catholics and these Orthodox will interrupt and stop it.

It is fascinating to me. There's a real spiritual battle, and the entrenchment of the devil in those two churches is so obvious. It is so obvious. Let's get to Jermaine. From California.

Germaine, welcome here on the air. Three. Hey, Matt, yeah, speaking of false gospel, I had a question. about a quote that was attributed to Joseph Smith, a sermon he did, I think, in the eighteen hundreds. And I first heard this from Walter Martin when I was.

You know, getting the Lord was kind of calling me and I was scrubbing YouTube many, many years ago and I don't have it verbatim. I'm I already know you know it, but where he boasts about doing more to hold the church together than All the apostles and Jesus himself when I heard that, that For me,'cause I have I grew up with a lot of Mormon people, and on the surface they seem okay. But when I heard that, I said there is no way. I could ever be a party to this. Like there's no way I can see how anybody who's aware Could follow a man who would say such a thing because if I look back at all the prophets, And I look back at anyone who was called by God, they just wouldn't dare utter something like that.

Correct. And I've heard arguments that were taken out of context, et cetera, but. When You hear a quote like that to me. I think it's obvious, but doesn't that kind of say his message is satanic from that point on. Absolutely.

It's History of the Church, Volume 6, page 408 and 409.

Okay. I'm looking at the quote on my website. I'm going to read it to you, but after the break. Charlie Spine, he's in the room. He helps, he's on the board of directors.

He's the one who read me that quote. I just met him the week before in a Bible study. He read me that quote back in 1979 or 80, we don't know which year. That's the quote that started me studying apologetics. That very quote.

So you can blame Charlie's spine. He's the strongest mine. He's smiling right now. I'm looking at him.

So all the problems I've caused, it's your fault, Charles. That's it, Chuck Mince. He's not in smiling.

So we get back from the break. I'll read the quote slowly, verbatim, from the official teachings or the teachings from the LDS Church today, the books you can get in their bookstores. All right, I'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please, if you will, stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Jermaine Brother. Are you still there? Uh Yes, I am.

Alright, good stuff.

Alright, so what I'm going to do is read more than I've really read before out of History of the Church, Volume 6, page 408, 409. I got this from the very book I went into the Mormon bookstore, Deseret Bookstore, and got it. And I've done this over the years. Got three or four sets of things, History of the Church.

So this is not me saying it. This is him saying it.

So. This is what he says. I'm going to read a little bit before. The quote that Charlie read to me starts with, God is in this still small voice. But I'm going to read before that a little bit so you get a context.

He's Joseph Smith said. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster. I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last.

My enemies are no philosophers they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down but for the fools I will hold on and fly over them. God is in this still small voice, in all these affidavits, indictments. It is all of the devil, all corruption. Come on, you prosecutors, ye false swears. All hell boil over.

Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava, for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. Yeah. A large majority of the whole have stood by me.

Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. That's Joseph Smith, a founder of Mormonism. Yeah.

Mm. Incredible arrogance. Incredible. Yeah. You know, I tell you, I've quoted it so many times over the years, I've got it memorized.

And I remember in Southern California, I had varying jobs, and Southern California is just you drive everywhere. And you go fifty miles basically. you know, radius and you never leave the city. And uh I would meet Mormon missionaries constantly, so much so that they were told specifically not to talk to me. They'd know I would stop them and talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me.

They were told not to. I remember more than once, but I remember this one particular instance. I quoted this. to a to a Mormon, Mormon missionary. God isn't a so small voice done more than Jesus.

Neither John, Paul, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I just quoted it to him, and he said. I don't know who said that. He said, But whoever said it is not a Christian. I said, yeah, I agree with you, he's not.

And I told him it was Joseph Smith. He was stunned. I says, yeah, this is the guy that started your church. And he didn't know what to do. He was just openly, visibly shaken.

But um Yeah. Yeah, bad news, bad news.

Okay. Wow. Yeah, that that's uh power. I've I've actually never heard the um Pretext that leads into that, but that makes it even worse in my opinion. But I will say to their credit, a lot of the Mormons I do meet or know have no knowledge of what you just said and right.

I know Some of them have good hearts. Intent is there, but they don't do any research because they believe they're in the truth. And everyone else is apostate, but that. That quote coming for their own so-called prophet. to me just dismantles the religion.

Yes, yeah, it does. It it should be very clear that Mormonism was started by a heretic. I've had Mormons tell me that it was true. He's done more than even Jesus to keep a church again. Remember, Jesus people ran away from him.

And I said Do you realize what you're saying? I mean, Jesus is God in flesh. He's brought the church together by his very indwelling of the believers. Jose has done more than that. Oh my goodness.

And this is just one of the Blatant, obvious deceptions that occur and that people believe. It is just It is so amazing to me. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, well, thanks, Matt. I appreciate it. Um I'm actually gonna have to use that text because I And, you know, just crazy on, I had a A Polynesian couple I grew up with. and they have eight kids and they moved to Utah naturally and Uh she started off Christian, he was Mormon.

They move their Mm-hmm. I had a feeling like I needed to pray for them and I reached out to Letterbell and She let me know that they had actually left the church. And they're Yeah, out of their family of ten, eight of them are out.

Now her two boys are there. They're playing at BYU currently, but just praying for them. But I think this is kind of stuff that really empowers us to to help you. Instead of just get the pointless debates, because you can't deny what you just read. That's right, you can't.

It's true. And as Jesus says, in the last days, many false Christs and false prophets will arise and deceive many. Matthew 24:24. And people just say, no, I have a feeling. I know the Book of Mormon is true.

I bear my testimony. Blah, blah, blah. In other words, I don't care what God's word says, I'm going to tell you how I feel. That's what it comes down to. Yep.

Fortune's altar. All right, rudder. All right. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it.

God bless you, man. God bless, man. God bless. All right, so now we have nobody waiting right now. This reminds me of the scriptures of Romans 1.18.

I'm going to go through a little bit because I think it might be worth closing the show with about spiritual blindness and consequences and things like that. It says in Romans 1.18, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth and unrighteousness.

So Mormonism suppresses the truth and unrighteousness. The true God suppresses the true Christ, the true gospel.

So does Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. They suppress the true gospel and they promote idolatry.

So these are forms of unrighteousness, and it says that the wrath of God is revealed against them. What is this wrath? Let's get to it. He says, Because that which is evident about God is within them, for God made it evident to them. Since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, his eternal power, divine nature being clearly seen, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to them.

So. This is verse 21. I'm getting ahead a little bit just because we're running out of time. They do not honor him as God or give thanks.

So the Mormons, for example, will say, no, they honor him as God. But they don't because their God is an exalted man. And they have all kinds of problems in Mormonism. which I don't get into can't get into right now.

So the Catholics and East Orthodox are not honoring God as God, as the supreme king, who alone you go to. No, you go to Mary, you go to the saints, they get you to God. They're not honoring God as a supreme king. Yeah. and neither the Mormons.

And so they become futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. This is fascinating. The foolish heart was darkened.

So they believe these lies, and their hearts are darkened. That means They can't see the error that they are in. And even though they knew God, Fruit's heart was darkened.

Okay. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

So the wisdom of Mormonism is Pray about it and you'll get the truth feeling about the Book of Mormon. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

And the same thing goes with Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Professing to be wise, they have all this knowledge of church history, church fathers that they selectively appeal to, and then they twist the Word of God to make it fit their theology. It says they exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for the image of the form of corruptible man.

Now that's what Mormonism does. Without a a doubt, okay. And then they serve the crawling creatures and four-footed things. In other words, and the form of corruptible man.

So, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy is doing that in their prayer and adoration of their idolatrous procedures of praying to Mary and the saints and saying that they have the ability to intercede for us in heaven and that they can hear our prayers. They have these divine-like qualities suddenly, and you have to go through Mary to get to Christ. They say a lot of this kind of stuff, it's just horrible. And so, what happens is the judgment of God is upon them. And I can go through verse by verse.

We've got a caller. I'll get to them in a sec here. But it says, God gives them over. to what they believe. In verse 26, they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, worshipped, and served the creature rather than the Creator.

Therefore, God gave them over to their degrading passions. And he talks about their Functions. I can't get into the two words here because I don't want to say it over the radio. Because I have kids listening, but it gets into immorality and stuff like that. And it says in verse 28, they gave.

He gave them over to a depraved mind. This is the the depravity of their minds to believe these lies. Yeah, someone needs to speak about things more and more. Let's get to Utah. I mean, Utah.

Let's get to Jerry from Utah. Jerry, welcome you on the air. Hey, you've touched me before, Matt. It's me, Gary, he and Layton. I know the time's only about three, four minutes, roughly, if that, so we'll be just kind of quick.

Yeah, you're pretty much covering what I was already going to talk about, and I'm so glad you're addressing that again because you already know, being out here in Utah, how much we have to deal with that. And I go on Instagram some of the times, and I've seen a lot of videos on there with a lot of these Mormons trying to present themselves as if they're born-again Christians.

Now, I see some with us born-again Christians, that's a good thing, but they probably see that too. And so they're like, oh, we got to push our religion. And when you try to confront them, oh my goodness, the arguments never end. And they just really want to try to come at us. And you know how they don't have answers for free gift of salvation, they don't have an answer for that, they don't have an answer for the book, you know, having their name in the book of life.

And they don't have an answer for mankind's answer to sin to address sin. I tell them that. They don't really have an answer. But I love when you address this. It's awesome.

I'm so glad you're on it today.

Well, it needs to be said, and something snapped with me on Friday night down in Southern California, driving on the 91 Freeway when I was talking to the Eastern Orthodox guys. And after 100 conversations, literally, maybe two or 300, I mean, literally that many conversations, as I was preaching the gospel to somebody who was finally open to hearing it, the EO came in and stopped it. And it occurred to me how many times they've done that, and the Catholics have also stopped it, preaching the gospel. And that was it. I was done with them.

And so I think it's time really to start calling them out on their heresies. And they need to be spoken of directly. And the people in the pulpits, the men in the pulpits, need to say Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims. They need to reach out and address the Catholics and these Orthodox and call them heretics for what they are. They're not true Christians, they're not true believers.

They don't have the truth. It needs to be done. Christian pastors need to start getting up there and saying it more and more. Perfect. In the short notes, we got less because we'll have to do this another day.

But you're right.

Now, there's a few pastors doing that, but there's because they got the wave of do it. But you're right, though. More of it needs to happen in real Christian churches. I think they've gotten used to the last four years of being woke and being afraid and like, oh, I don't want to offend anybody. And I'm like, well, excuse me, God's word will offend.

I mean, when he comes back, he's coming back to separate the sheep from the goats, you know, the wheat from the tares. Yeah, you know, I would hate God to look at me and say, Matt, So you compromised the truth and didn't offend anybody? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, right. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want that word. We have to answer him. We have to serve him.

We can't worry about how they feel. True. But then trying to be balancing it with being gentle at the same time is very difficult. But we're out of time with it. Yeah, there's the music.

We've got to go. All right, brother. God bless. God bless. Thank you.

All right. Hey, folks, we are out of time. There's the music. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, look back on there tomorrow.

Lord willing. We'll talk to you then.

So have a good one, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.