Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm. dot org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live.

Parentheses taking your calls and responding to your questions at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome to the show. Hey, I'm back on the air. Today's date is let's see, November ninth, twenty twenty-six.

I've been out for about a month, and I can tell you why. But I'm back on. If you want to give me a call, back to usual. The number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. If you're a newbie, and coincidentally, they're just tuning in, first time.

I'm a Christian apologist to answer questions on the Bible, logic, philosophy, UFOs, aliens. Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Bahai, Islam, Eastern Orthodox Doctrines, Roman Catholic, all theism, basics, and stuff like that. And you're welcome to give me a call if you have questions. We talk about all kinds of stuff. The number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Now, for those of you who, finally, you know. I'm back on the air, but I got to tell you that I've been recovering from pneumonia, and I'm coughing constantly right now. But I'm hitting the mute button, and hopefully, it's not too bad. But I was in Europe for two weeks. Went to Germany for a week, and then to England for a week, and was doing a Bible Reformation tour and had a good time.

Except when I got to England, I got pneumonia and didn't know I had pneumonia until I got back, and it really knocked me for a loop.

So I've had a lot of chest X-rays and doctor's appointments and things like that, and I'm still recovering. And as soon as I get back, author airs. Day I'm just gonna go watch TV for the rest of the day, so hope you just bear with me while I cough through this session, hitting my cough button. Hopefully, hopefully it'll work. And I want to say thank you to all of you who have been praying for me.

Pneumonia is not something you want to mess with, and I wasn't hospitalized or anything, but it was close, and. Anyway, here we are back back in the saddle, so to speak.

Now I want to tell you a little bit about Germany. I loved Germany. You know, my ancestors are from Germany. We went to. The Wittenberg door, where tradition says that Martin Luther nailed the ninety-five theses.

We went to Dachau, one of the concentration camps. Walked through that, saw the ovens, saw the the yard, saw the the holding areas. We saw that. We went to. Berlin.

We were. We even saw castles too. It was. It was. It's beautiful.

It's like postcards everywhere. The German people were really nice, and I ended up having lots of conversations with some Germans. And basically, everybody speaks English. And we were on the autobahn in the on the tour bus. There's about forty five of us, give or take.

I think forty three, forty four. And we were on the the autobahn, and just like on TV, these cars are passing us up on the left lane. I mean, doing 120 miles an hour kind of thing. And so we're just cruising along. I'm in the very, very back of the bus, and wham, we got hit.

We got hit by a a vehicle. I thought our tire blew. There was fragments of stuff all over the freeway. And we see this car SUV swerving, and the airbags had gone off, and the whole bit. And so we immediately pulled over, and the freeway was stopped for about forty-five minutes.

We had a couple nurses on board. They went and checked on the person in the other vehicle. We don't know what happened, how it happened. Don't have any answers on that. But we just sat there, and I was in the back window, so I had a you know bird's eye view right there, watching everything.

What was really interesting is. Is I found out that it's a law in in Germany that everybody has to carry one of those yellow safety vests that are highly reflective, along with I was told. Hope this is accurate. A fire extinguisher, and this is just for this reason of. Of car accidents, and lo and behold, I didn't know that.

But I said, "Where do these officials come from?" Inside of one minute, and it was the the people, just the populace, getting out of their cars, putting these jacket things on, and going out.

So I actually ordered a jacket and a fire extinguisher for my vehicle. It's just a great idea.

So that was fun. Nobody was really injured. The it took the lady away, but she, you know, she was okay. We heard, and then we drove off as a big, big vehicle, so we were able to handle that. We went to Berlin, and we went and saw the Berlin Wall, and samples of it, so to speak.

You could see segments where it was. We we walked through the arc. The arch, Berlin Wall had had paralleled. There were just so many things to to see, and I really enjoyed the food of all things in Germany. It was really nice.

Now, we got up at oh dark thirty, went to the airport, went to London. And flew in there, and then we just went straight to touring. I didn't get much sleep, and I was in a weakened state, and just had started coughing a little bit, and that's when I got pneumonia when it fully manifested. Missed two days, two or three days of the trip, because I was at the hotel recovering. Got went to Stonehenge, and enjoyed that.

Stonehenge was great. And what else? Let's see Stonehenge, and I'm hearing some noises. Here's some other stuff here.

So we saw Big Ben to some churches, and it was really great. It was really interesting. I really had a good trip, and here we are. We're back, and I've been recovering for two weeks with pneumonia. All right.

Having said all of that. We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Rudolph from North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey brother, I'm glad you're back, and I'm glad you're okay. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip. I'm sorry to hear you're sick, but I'm glad to hear you're forth, bro. I was so afraid that I was not going to get a chance to hug you anymore. But I'm thank you.

I'm glad to have you back. Love, brother. Appreciate it, and appreciate all the people that are praying. My question is: How can what kind of music could a Christian listen to? A secular music that a Christian can listen to.

This is a difficult question to answer universally.

So there's a lot of great secular music out there, and great secular bands that that have been great.

So the Bible says, "Whatever is good, whatever is of good repute, let your mind, your heart dwell on these things." Philippians four six through eight.

So you have to decide what you want to listen to, and if it's helping you or harming you.

So. I enjoy praise music. I listen to praise music, but I'll also listen to some secular music too because I just like some of the secular music. As long as it's not affecting me in a negative way, I won't listen to anything that does that. That has real negative lyrics.

I've had some songs I really like the style, but the lyrics have been bad. I go, I'm not listening to it.

So you have to be wise and and not let it. Rule you now. Here's the thing about this, is that my words can be taken to as as an excuse to dabble in areas, let's say, in this context of music, that some people should not do. We don't want to. Step.

Put one pinky into the gray area of righteousness and sanctification, and then say it's okay here, just a little bit, a little bit more, a little bit more.

Next thing you know, you're you're in the dark. We don't want to have that happen, but we don't want to be legalistic on the other side and say we can't listen to anything secular, we can't watch a movie that's not you know glorifying God in every degree.

So we have to use our wisdom. And what I tell people is, listen to what helps you. Listen to what you enjoy. But if it starts to control you, influence you, or you find you're being influenced by those things in a negative way, in a biblical way, they need to cut it off. And I say, be mature in that.

Okay. I definitely understand what you're saying. I'm. I'm. I'm saying.

You know. You know. Like. When I think about stuff like that, I'm like I'm like old like old school classical music and definitely nothing negative. You know, I know you don't you don't mess with that because, like you said, that leads wrong.

But you know, I'm just talking about like I mean, have you know? I'm like old school R&B, you know, old school songs, stuff you know from oh, you know, you know how you like old music, music, but it's not bad, so you know that's what I'm asking. Would you think it might be okay to listen at?

Well, you know, there's a lot of good stuff out there, and there's not some not so good stuff out there.

So personally, I like every kind of music except for country western, which I can't stand, and Chinese opera, which is the equivalent to two male cats in heat fighting each other while the blender's on that they're in. But other than that, I like everything, and except for those two.

So what I would say is. Is be free, to enjoy the things of the world, as long as the things of the world don't control you. And if you find that they're influencing you negatively, then you need to take that very seriously. That's what I say.

Okay. Alright, brother. Yeah. Um.

Okay. The reason I'm asking because. I'm. I'm. That's why I'm not been.

I'm not been. I'm like. I'm kind of. I know what you're saying. Not been thinking about that, but you know.

I'm. So. Okay, if it's not needed, it's okay. All right. Okay.

Okay. Oh man! Thank you. Thanks for your help. Thanks for your help.

Good to hear your voice again. Take care of yourself. And I love you, brother.

Well, God bless, man. Appreciate it. God bless. You know, excuse me, folks. Like cough, I have a cough button, and I don't know how it's working.

People are telling me they can still hear me coughing. I'll try not to, best I can, and I'm even going to use a cough drop here. And hopefully, that won't be too bad on the radio as well. My apologies, but that's just what's what it is. Let's get to Germain from California.

Germain, welcome, brother. You're on the air. Oh hey, man! Welcome back. Good to hear you on the air.

It's good to be back. Been a whole month, a whole month. But yeah, back on. Yeah, I've been to Europe, and the way they drive actually terrifies me more than being in the ghetto.

So I, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It was pretty amazing. These cars were flying. Yep.

It's all right though. Yeah, my. My question for today: So, we're we're kind of caretaking for my father in law. He's he's on his last days. He's on hospice, and he's probably I doubt he lasts a week unless God grants him that.

But he's doing what a lot of hospice nurses and people have told me in the past. Where I see them kind of reaching out and making comments about people. Maybe he he thinks he sees, but. He makes a lot of comments also about going home and going to the Father, and he's just tired. I hear that a lot.

Like he's ready to go, but is there any biblical evidence that when people are in the process of passing, they can see things that we can't perceive? Like when Elijah and Elisha were having their encounter with the when he asked him if God could open his eyes and he can see, you know, the hills surrounded with. I guess you can describe heavenly soldiers, right? Yes.

Well, in Acts seven fifty five through sixty, Stephen's being stoned to death, and he sees the other side. He sees the Lord.

So there, yes, there is a biblical warrant for it, right there. All right, we can see that. And when my mom passed away, my I didn't, I wasn't there when this happened, but my dad said that because she was in hospice. And he was there, of course. She, he said that she looked at him and said, "Who's that person standing next to you?" And there was nobody there.

She was seeing someone or something. We had a friend named Melinda back in San Diego, and she died of an illness, and she was out of commission. And right before she passed away, I'll tell you what happened when we get back from the break. All right. Hey, folks!

If you want to give me a call, the number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. We'll be right back. Tuesday. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is two zero. I mean, oh my goodness, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. And I just want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support.

Please consider supporting us. We definitely do need it to support the missionaries, keep the lights on, etc. You can do that easily. Go to karm dot org c a r m dot o r g forward slash donate on the top of the page. There you'll see everything you need.

Let's get back on with Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air, brother. You still there? Oh yes, sir.

I sure am.

Okay. So I was saying before the break that our our friend, who's a really godly woman, and she was out of it. There was no really responses, you know, nothing really happening, and she was obviously in the last hours of her life. And her husband said that she sat up, just sat up suddenly, and reached out with a great smile. And just, just like, just receiving, just, just loving what she was seeing, and then fell back, and and she passed away.

And so, you know, there's countless stories of this kind of a thing happening all over the world. People see things, and there's even accounts of atheists who see things before they die, and they're not happy about what they're seeing. But yeah, it's there.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, and I have gone through several books with some of these doctors who observed the phenomenon to the point where they couldn't deny. Like they didn't necessarily say they were all believers, but they said they could not deny the hundreds, if not thousands, of experiences they had where people were having the same, the same experiences at the point of death and. No, a couple of them did become Christians, and the rest are kind agnostic, but they know there's something there.

So just pray for them. But it's really interesting just to observe this because he he will be passing at our home, and just watching him, you know, day by day, he he has started to reach out and talking about wanting to see his his mom and wanting to see other people.

So. And something he in his character he never would have done previously, so it was very interesting to watch. But it's really strengthened our faith. We just get to sing and pray songs together, pray, and continue to just encourage and uplift him. And he's he's ready to go from what he says.

So, so he's a believer. Yeah, it's a good thing. Yeah, he is. He is. He got to hear the gospel.

The last. Years at our church, he he went to a place where it was more religion. But you know, I just found God has a way of allowing situations in your life to humble you and just wake you up.

So you know, regardless, he he says he wants to go be with the Lord.

So he's if if he's not a believer, he's faking it really well.

Okay, well. Hopefully he is a true believer, and by God's grace, he'll waken in the presence of our Holy Lord.

So, good stuff. All right. Well, thank you, thank you very much, Mal. I appreciate you, glad you're back.

Okay, ma'am. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. God bless. Sorry about that.

Try not to cough into the mic, folks. And you have a cough button, but it apparently. Isn't really working very well. This reminds me. My wife passed away a year ago this month, and we were all in ICU when you know the last.

Hours of her life, and she was sedated. She was in a lot of pain, and so there was nothing that she reached out to. We didn't see any. I actually waited and to see if anything like that would happen. When those final moments came, we had to, you know, the doctors came in.

They said, "Are you ready?" And they said, "We said, yeah." All the family was there, and we, you know, unplugged the stuff, and she passed away. and We and I was waiting. Hopefully, she would see something, but not nothing happened.

So these things do happen. They don't happen all over the world, and they are biblically supported. Acts seven fifty five through sixty people seeing the other side as they approach death. Let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome.

You're on the air. Patrick, there. Patrick, maybe we can't hear him. I don't know. You know.

Well, let's give it another little bit. But the question he has is, what should be the outcome of people who commit ID theft?

Well, they should be judged. They should go to jail. They destroy people's lives. It's very difficult. I actually know a couple where this happened to them, and it just wrecked them.

It took two years to undo the damage of this this ID theft.

So there's a lot of stuff that's bad there, and I think people who who do that, like those people who try and steal houses from you, and the way your house is paid off, then they go in and they file paperwork. On your house, and there's a way to do this stuff, and they can get you kicked out of your own house, which is paid for, and you have to go to the courts, and you have to do all the stuff. Then they have, you know, all kinds of problems.

Sorry, folks, trying not to cough into the mic and. The cough button doesn't seem to be working properly. At least that's what I've been told.

So anyway, ID theft is like theft, and they need to be dealt with very, in my opinion, very harshly, and and very thoroughly.

Now the Democrats. Oh, that reminds me. You know the sweep of the Democrats. I've been watching some videos. Apparently, there's some shenanigans going on.

Talking about theft and ID theft, there's some statistics and some numerics that are not adding up for the the states that were always been red, all of a sudden vote blue in all the counties, and more votes than there are people. Things like this, and so we'll see what's going to happen. But that's a a problem. Let's try, Patricia. Yes.

Can you hear me? Yes, I can. I can hear you.

Okay. Yes.

So you kind of partially answered a question that I have when the other caller, Patrick, asked you what happens to people who commit identity theft. That was your name. I just read it wrong. But yeah, go ahead. Oh, that's who you were talking about.

Me? Yes.

Okay. Well, let me just finish my question. Let me just finish my question. For the past ten years, I'm talking since 2016 and 2015, someone has been using my name in multiple different variations. They have monetized using my name by using my business name as well, taken all of my email addresses and used them in multiple ways, some not so nice and not so good.

They've hacked cell phones. I know I have at least thirteen now. That when I would pay my cell phone bill, somebody would steal my phone number, and take my service and use my money on that service, and I would have to start all over again.

So my question is this: Where do you see this heading in terms of some type of retribution, some type of Punishment and some type of accountability for people who just harass folk. Because these these people out here, it's not like it's not enough for them just to take your identity. They will harass you and keep coming for you, even when they know there's nothing left for them to take. They will just do that. And because they're not seen, and you can't.

You have a question. You have a you have a question in there. That is the question.

Okay, but hold on. We got a break coming up. We have a break, Patricia. Hold on.

Okay, we'll get back to you after the break. All right, hey folks.

Sorry about that. I've got a break and a cough coming.

So the Lord bless you. Be right back. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live.

Taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines: eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. I'm back on the air after a whole month—two month being off—that is, two weeks in Europe and then two weeks recovering from pneumonia, and so that's why I'm coughing and trying not to cough.

But I decided to get on the air and get back on the road, so to speak. Let's get back to Patricia from North Carolina. Patricia is still there. Hi. Yes, I am.

Can you hear me? Yes.

So okay, what I would recommend you what I'd recommend you do is go to identitytheft.gov. Have you heard of it, identitytheft.gov? Yes.

Too many times.

Okay. With no result.

Okay. So this is the question that I'd like to ask, if I may. I gave you a scenario of some things that have happened to myself as well as other people. But where do you see this going in terms of some type of correction or some type of of of policing that people actually render some type of replication from all of the aggravation and everything that's going on with this? Yeah, I mean these people are visible.

I don't know. I can't tell you what needs to be done or what can be done. I'm a theologian, and not a police detective or anything like that. Not a lawyer. I mean, I get that.

I understand that. But what about from the perspective of God? How should we victims? And I don't like to even be calling myself a victim, but how should we respond to this? Two ways: one is you pray for the person's salvation, and two, you can pray for the person's judgment.

And that's perfectly biblical. It's called an imprecatory prayer, where you you and they're found in the Psalms, imprecations, where the psalmist will say in prayer to God, Lord, those who persecute me, may you you know break their teeth, may their heels fail, may their legs stumble, and and it'll they'll they'll talk imprecations.

So you can have you do have the right to be able to. Pray imprecatorily about those people who are doing harm to you, who don't want to repent and are of the devil, and you can just say, Lord, judge them. Lord, work on them. You know, break their teeth, so to speak. You can do that, and you can all.

But I also add in, I've done this with people. I prayed imprecatorily with people who persecuted me for varying reasons for what I do in ministry. But I've, I've, I've also said, but yet, Lord, save them. And but I'll pray both, okay?

Okay, that sounds fair. Yeah, and what I've been surprised is that when I've prayed imprecatory prayers, usually the person or persons who are been hassling, after a little bit, after a few weeks, they stop. I don't know why, but they do. I wish I could say the same. It hasn't been that simple, but nevertheless, I hear what you are saying.

And I can appreciate that advice because God does tell us to pray for our enemies and to bless them, etc., etc. You know, it's just really, really hard sometimes. Yes, I. I mean, it's really hard. I would agree, and I can't say some of the things I wish we could do.

I can't say them on the air. Yeah, but I got you.

Okay. Well, thank you for responding to my question. All right. God bless. God bless, Patricia.

Uh huh.

Okay. All right. We have three open lines: eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get to Jordan from New Mexico. Jordan, welcome.

You're on the air, brother. Hey, man. Yes, I hear you. I hear you. What do you got?

Okay. I just had a couple questions, and I wanted to see what your opinion was on relative identity within the Trinity.

Okay, and because I'm looking at relative identity, and I think it makes a lot of sense on how to count the persons instead of absolute identity, but. I want to see if that's the rabbit hole that you possibly went down.

Well, relative identity—it's okay.

So, absolute identity: if A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C, and the transitivity of identity. And so, the relative identity issue is trying to solve what's the transitivity problem. But the problem, I think, is that they don't have to do that at all. If they understand that the essence of God is divine, and that the divine essence doesn't do anything, it's persons that do something.

So persons are the the let's say how the triune nature is expressed, and so each of the persons relative to each other. Has certain characteristics necessary only to the person, and so we see in this issue of excuse me, coughing here.

Okay, we see that that relative to each other, there is no problem. I am trying to remember the issue here because. Trying to remember it because I know that there's an issue between the relative and the absolute, and how I'm trying to remember the argument that they have that confuses the two. And I can't remember the argument too well. Recently, haven't come across it in a long time.

But the solution is found in understanding that the triune nature is one being that is, by definition, three persons. And the transitivity issue can deal, in one sense, with the attributes of the divine essence: each is omniscient, omnipotent, etc. But they're relative to each other in that one is sent, but the other one. Is not sent. One is incarnate, and the other is not incarnate.

And so the issue here is that when we understand that the absolute identity of the natures, the attributes of divinity, are expressed into all three persons, the relativeness of them in relation to each other is shows distinction because there are attributes necessary to each person, not shared by the other. For example, the Father sends, and the the Son is sent, and the Holy Spirit is sent. By the father and the son, etc. Makes sense. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, that makes that makes sense. My other question is about Kabbalistic theology. I know that there is different views. I was I was reading through stuff and Lutherans don't believe in kenotic theology and I want to see if you think that's orthodox.

They believe that kenotic theology makes the sun subordinate in some sense, and I want to see what you think. Yeah, the sun is subordinate.

Okay, excuse me, I'm coughing here. For those who just tuned in, I'm getting over pneumonia, which is why I'm coughing a lot.

So this is out of the, you know, kenosis out of Philippians two five through eight. Carmen Christie, he emptied himself, and there is a subordination in in the Godhead, in the fact that the the Father sent the Son. Subordination is different than subordinationism. Subordinationism is the the the heresy, the false teaching that the reason the Father sent the Son is the Father is superior in nature to the Son. That's not true.

So Lutherans teach that Christ, human nature, shares in His divine attributes, and that's fine. The communication of the attributes and the property, the person, teach other humans. I mean, back up. The proper teaching is that. The one person of Christ has two distinct natures, and that the attributes of each nature are ascribed to the single person.

This is called the communication of the properties or the attributes of Son, like I said, communicatio idiomatum. And so, what we're going to say here at this point is that as long as the kenotic idea maintains the equality in nature between the Father and the Son. There's no problem. They can hold that equivalence in nature while also holding a subordination in the sense that the son came to do the will of the father who sent him, and that it was the will of the father to send the son. And but we also have to understand that the the son chose to be sent or allow himself to be sent, so to speak, by the will of the father.

Always came to do the will of the father, and so. There's that sense of a hierarchy. The father sends the son. The father and son send the Holy Spirit, and so it's not a problem within the Trinitarian essence, as long as the Kondic theory does not include any any alteration of nature with with a son in his incarnation in his emptying. That makes sense.

Yeah. Would there be someone? That you possibly read, or anything like that, that you'd be able to refer me to on this, because I know that there are different views in pneumatic theology. Yes, and I want to see which one you're like more leaning for. I would get the book Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem, and he'll go through some of the theories about this.

So, Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem.

Now, here's the thing. Let me just slow down. The Trinity is one being in three distinct, simultaneous persons. That's the nature of the Godhead. Nature doesn't do anything; the persons do.

And the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit, share all the divine attributes, but are distinct in their. Their works, all right.

Now, from that, after the break, we'll get back to the issue of the person of the Son, so that we lay a foundation, so that you can understand what kynotic theories to reject.

Okay, so hold on. Folks, we'll be right back after the messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live. Taking a call at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines: eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Jordan, are you still there? Yeah.

All right. Now.

So let me slow down and lay a foundation here, and I'm going to go very simply to begin with. In that, Jesus has two natures: a divine nature and a human nature. The divine nature, by necessity, has to have all the attributes of divinity; otherwise, it's not divine. There are no accidental properties in God's nature. What that means is every attribute of God is part of His nature, so He is omniscient, is omnipotent.

You cannot take away that either one of those and others, and still have God.

So when Christ, the divine Word, which is God, John one one fourteen, became flesh, then He possesses, by logical necessity, all of those divine attributes. You with me so far? Yeah, I'm with you.

Okay. Now, any kinotic theory, and there's several, any that would then say in any way that the attributes were lessened, is false. You can't have a lesser degree of omniscience or a lesser degree of omnipotence. It's not possible. God is omnipotent.

He is omniscient. He is omnipresent. There cannot be. He's just mostly omnipresent.

So any kenotic idea that would say there's a lessening of the quality of the attributes of divine nature is to be rejected, flat out as heresy.

Now.

Also, any koinotic theory that would say that he lost any of those attributes is to be rejected because that's that's heresy of heresies.

Now, now what we get into? Hold on, we get into those other theories that then deal with the issue of. He possessed all those attributes fully and completely by logical necessity, because he's divine and human. But how or to what degree were they accessed by the one person? And this is where we have differences of opinion.

So we have we have a theory that says that he gave up some of these the access to some of these attributes. But that's that's ridiculous, because to say you don't have access to the attributes is like me saying I don't have access to the attribute of being human. It's a non sequitur. It doesn't make any sense to say that.

So anyone that would say Jesus had the attributes of divinity but didn't access them is ridiculous. That's like saying he's he's divine but he's not exercising any of the divine qualities.

Well, how does that work? Since the divine qualities are equal to the essence of who and what God is, so that's to be rejected.

Some will say that these attributes are His, but He he didn't exercise them; he had access to them.

So now we get into problems with with any theory. Because, how are we defining some of these these these terms?

So, generally speaking, any kenotic theory that subtracts anything from Christ is to be rejected. If it lessens the qualities of the attributes in in the nature of Christ, divine aspect, is to be rejected. Let me say this again: Any kenotic theory that subtracts or lessens the deity of the attributes of God in Christ, the divine nature in Christ, is to be rejected. Christ, divine nature, had all power, all knowledge, everything that's necessary to the nature. Any kenotic theory that would say there's a change in the divine nature is to be rejected because God is immutable.

Matthew, I mean Malachi three six. Hebrews thirteen eight. He doesn't change. He cannot lay aside in these attributes of omniscience, omnipotence, etc., because he'd cease to be God. And it says even in in the incarnation, it says that Christ upholds all things by the word of His power, Hebrews one three.

And in Philippians two seven, He took for a bond servant, but in Colossians one fifteen through seventeen, it says you know He's holding everything together.

So. Any kenotic theory that is lessening the deity of Christ is to be rejected. Any kenotic theory that maintains the full deity of Christ in all qualities is within orthodoxy. The question then becomes: How then do they define the person of Christ exercising those attributes? And that's where we get into.

Some difficulties and some discussions. Does that help at all? Yeah, yeah, that helps a lot.

Okay, that helps a lot because, from my understanding, your your base because a lot of Kanak theory theology. A lot of it is claiming to say that there's some type of disruption between the divinity of Christ. Like there's something going on where they're not really expressing that Christ is fully divine in a sense. And to me, it seems like you're if you go on on a path like that. To me, it seems like you would fall into like an historian view where now you're separating the divine from the human.

Yes.

Yep. And you could also get into meophysitism. You get into monophysitism and varying other errors.

So, just remember this general rule. Having gone through all this, any kenotic theory that lessens Christ's deity attributes, qualities, abilities, reject. Any one of them that maintains all the fullness of the attributes of divinity. Is within acceptable range, and what I mean by that is, you might have three or four different ways of someone might approach the issue. For example, Jesus saying, "I didn't know the day nor the hour." What does that mean?

And we can get into the theories behind that, and then we get into the kenotic relationships, and then and this beginning to the issue of the relation of the divine and human nature, and how does the one person access both the attributes or both sets of attributes? And this is just stuff that we don't know. The Bible doesn't tell us.

So as long as the iconoclastic theory doesn't reduce Christ in any way, doesn't put look at it this way: the incarnation is not God minus anything; it's God plus God plus human nature.

So the divine nature and the human nature exist simultaneously in the person of Christ, even right now. Yeah, I heard that. The first time I heard that was from Greg Bonson. I was greeting Greg. I was listening to Greg Bonson, and he said that.

It blew my mind. He said what? What did Greg say? Greg Bonson said, like, when the Son takes on flesh, it's not him subtracting something, but it's a It's him taking on flesh. It's not him losing divinity.

That's right. Good for him. I didn't know he said that, but that's good, and and it's correct. The incarnation is God plus human nature, not God minus divine attributes.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. I I appreciate it. I that helps a lot.

Hey, no problem, brother. No problem. I've had to deal with this quite a bit over the years.

So sometimes it's hard to articulate. But you know, I think you got enough of it out to make it make sense.

Okay, all right, brother. Yeah, okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, brother.

Call back anytime. All right. Well, there you go. Let's get to Daniel from North Carolina. Head to the side there really fast.

Both topics are interesting.

So, Daniel, welcome. You're on the air, brother. Are you there, Daniel? Daniel from Brooklyn, or Daniel from New York City? Is what the note says.

Yeah, that's that's me. Yeah, yeah, that's me. I thought you said North Carolina. Anyway, Matt, huge fan. Just yeah.

I just want to say that I am a Trinitarian, so I'm not calling you up for a gotcha or anything like that. I genuinely respect your expertise, and I'd like to run something by you. If we take a basic Hegelian dialectic approach, and we say we have a Trinitarian conception of God as the thesis, and then the non-Trinitarian conception of God as the antithesis. What would be the synthesis? What would, for the sake of the thought experiment, be?

What would be the synthesis at the deeper level, Mister? Oh man, I don't even know. That's something I have to think about. That's it's got me chuckling though. The thesis antithesis, then what to be the synthesis between them?

You could get something like Mormonism, I would think, because Mormonism is is is logically incomprehensible in their definition of what God is. There's logical impossibilities with it. But you get this inconsistent idea of a trinitarian office instead of a trinitarian nature. Oh wow! Wow!

Wow! Because, because again, Mr. Slick, if we again take this idea of saying that X cannot equal Y at the same time and in the same respect. But however, x can equal y at different times, and in different respects. Does that possibly change the situation?

No, no. We have to do with what's called transitivity of identicals, and there's a law of in logic. If a equals b and b equals c, then a equals c. And this is a law of proper inference. It's a of oh man, it's transference of identicals.

Any rate. I'm a little bit rusty. Haven't been off for a month. Excuse me. Hold on.

Sorry, getting over pneumonia.

So. Oh wow! I'm glad you're getting better. Oh man, it knocked me for a loop for two weeks.

So wow.

So when all the properties of one thing are identical in every way to the properties of another something in every way, then they are the same thing.

So this is A equals B equals C, then A equals C. The law proper inference, and so, so anyway, that's just a basic thing.

So we say, if they're equal and not equal, they have to be equal in all senses, or not equal in varying senses, and then we have to get down to particulars to analyze the logic of what's going on. Very interesting because that that would mean that the son would have to be identical in every aspect of the father's properties in order to be equal with the father. No. Yes and no. The divine.

Look at the divine nature. I'm going to do this in a very. I do this quickly. Got one minute. A very very basic form.

This a sphere is a divine nature, and there's three knobs on it: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They each participate in the divine essence and the nature. Because that's the nature of the triune being, but each one of them has characteristics relative to themselves that the other does not possess, even though they possess all the divine attributes. That's the identity necessity. That actually makes okay.

That makes a lot of sense actually. Let me go this quickly because we're almost out of time. And so the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have different relations to each other. The Father sent the Son, though they have the identical nature. They're Positions in relation to each other differentiates them, and that's how it works.

Okay. Well, Mister, look real fast before you go. Could it, in a very simple sense, be visualized as three concentric circles within a whole circle? We have to talk about that because we're out of time, and it all depends on what's meant and how the analogies are carried forth.

Okay, so hey, call back tomorrow. We can talk about this more. All right, brother. Thank you so much. Take care.

Bless. All right, that was Daniel. I love that kind of discussion. Hey, folks, thanks for listening, and thanks for again for those who prayed for me. I really appreciate it.

Continue to pray as I heal. May the Lord bless you and by His grace. We're back on here tomorrow. Have a great evening. God bless.

Another program powered by the Truth Network.