Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup, but when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts. I don't go around trying to, and I said this earlier, to beat people over the head with the Bible. But we are to share the love of Christ lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely. Our job is to tell it. The receiver's job is to receive it and believe it.
One plants a seed. Another waters, but God gives the increase. That is right from the heart of James Brown, the host of NFL Today on CBS, and we'll have the continuation of a conversation with him today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
You know, John, even in that clip, you can hear James's dedication to wordsmithing. He's very deliberate with the words he chooses and delivers them in such a great way, and he does that with sports, but more importantly, he does that with his faith in Christ. And it was wonderful hearing about JB's family last time and his love of Scripture. The time went by so quickly. You know, you're having a good time when that happens.
We have more to share today about his pursuit of a basketball career. That was his passion, not football, but more importantly, his pursuit of a commitment. Relationship with the Lord, he is a theologian, which is amazing. I really enjoyed my time with him in Washington D.C. We taped that remotely at a good friend's home there in Georgetown, and we're going to be featuring that conversation in our Sports and Faith audio collection as well.
I've talked to a number of athletes and sports media icons through the years, and you can hear their stories. It's all free. We just want you to hear their testimony in Christ and their.
Some big names in there. There are Scott Hamilton, Bernard Langer, Kirk Cousins, Daryl Waltrip, Daryl Strawberry. We have had so many great guests come through that are really excellent athletes. And you can sign up for that free Sports and Faith audio collection when you click the links in the show notes. Let's go ahead and jump back into the conversation now with James Brown on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Let me let me roll us back a little bit to sports, and that's your world. I mean, it's not who you are; it's what you do, but it's what you've done for a long time. You were a big time basketball player, high school champ, and all those things. And I just want to talk about FCA Fellowship Christian Athletes is how I came to Christ. And you know, I had a wonderful football coach who took an interest in me without my.
Mom and Dad as an orphan kid at that point in high school, living with my brother, but he just loved on me, and I will always have a place in my heart for football coaches because there's so many good men that are trying to help these young boys become men. And Paul Morrow did that for me. That was your experience too, and that's, in my opinion, what's make what makes sports so good spiritually for these men and women, boys and girls. The impact. Of a coach, on an athlete's life, in its fulsome sense, is undeniable.
But my high school coach, he had to carry on what my mother and father had set as foundational imprints in our lives, and my high school coach, Morgan Wooden, one of the finest coaches, as red our back of basketball fame, John Wooden of college basketball fame, Dean Smith, God bless him, they said he was the finest coach on any level. And here is what the foundation is. It's a long story. We'll talk about it later. But the synopsis is this: He told us he was a history teacher.
He said, "I am a teacher first. My basketball court is an extension of the classroom. Players playing for me had to have four priorities. Number one was God. Number two was family.
Number three was school. Number four." Was basketball what fourth, Jim Daly. We never ever heard him utter a profanity. Which, parenthetically, Tony Dungy has that claim to fame because many reporters who've heard Tony talk about them from his various players, they've gone behind him for the last twenty years trying to get a story from some player who's heard Coach Dungy utter a profanity on the football field. They can't find it.
A high school coach never ever uttered a profanity. I said, Coach, why is that? He said, because quite simply. It's toxic. I can relate to them with a level of respect and have it reciprocated.
And a winner does not need to engage in anything that's profane and contrary to the Word of God. He went into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as the first coach to be inducted. Who only did his work at the high school level? Wow! He was the winningest high school basketball coach in the country.
Number two, he then went into the Naismith Foundation Hall of Fame as the greatest high school coach of the 20th century. Yeah, and he never ever uttered a profanity. He always focused, and he walked the word of God without beating us over the head. He was the one who walked the talk. But I'll close it with this.
So I went to Harvard, and here I got over 150 athletic scholarships to go to these great schools. My parents certainly could have afforded it, but they always said, "Get the best education." That's the foundation stone for success in life.
So I said I wanted to go to Harvard, not realizing they were going to have to pay on their meager income and take out loans for me to go to Harvard. But that's what they said, and they made it happen. And I am forever thankful for that. You know, last year. We do survey work every year for the listeners, and thankfully, we have millions of people that that listen to Focus on the Family, and you know, like watch CBS NFL.
Right? I think you have a few more, but not sure. But but whatever few I want to, but there'll be impact. But the point of this is when we do the survey work last year, one hundred and seventy nine thousand people said Focus was the organization that helped lead me to the Lord.
So I think in the last few minutes here, JB, as we talk. About it, I love your sympathy that we're only human. You've said that a couple times that we're sinners saved by grace.
Sometimes we lose that, especially in the Christian community, and we put a lot of expectations on our children because you know we're probably thirty-five, forty. We've been walking with the Lord for ten, fifteen, twenty years, and then we expect our children. To be right there with us, but they've got to walk their journey as well, and I think in that regard, when you look at even your story about your daughter and you know tough decisions that were being made then. Speak to that parenting situation because I think there are going to be people hearing you and watching you now. That it will help them a to consider Christ as their Savior, and b to make wise decisions then, so that you're thirty, forty years from that point.
You can rest that your soul is at peace because right things were decided. Speak to your daughter's situation. Oh well, in terms of my daughter's situation, who you know I had out of wedlock, and I remember a gentleman at the University of Michigan. Who was an associate athletic director, who made such a distinct and lifelong impact on all of the great athletes who were there, including Tom Brady, Desmond Howard, etc., etc. A believer who had a Definitive impact on all of those athletes, helping to prepare them for the game of life.
And I'm not sure how much he may have been impacting him with the word, but I know when I thought about my daughter, and when I think about my daughter, and again, I had her out of wedlock with my high school sweetheart, who I thought I was going to marry, was not saved. And certainly, in my mind, I would not have objected because I didn't know Christ. If she said that she wasn't going to have the child if we weren't going to get married, and I went back and asked her not too too long ago, why did you not have an abortion? And she simply said, "And does it get any clearer and more impactful than this?" Her words. Not mine.
I do not want to kill my child. I had no other questions from there. And while I am humble to have been asked to speak on a number of different platforms and to preach the word of God, which I love, our friend Greg Oliver had extended invitations where people who run pregnancy centers. Were asking if I would come and talk to the women who were there, trying to encourage them to keep the baby. I understand this is a political hot potato, that many people stay away from.
This. The truth of the matter is, based on what my ex said and how she viewed it. And the beautiful forty-three-year-old daughter that I have now, who's married to a wonderful Christian man, with four beautiful Christian kids, who are all in Christian schools, I know that I know. And with respect to those invitations, while I can certainly give a male's perspective, I ask my daughter to go with me. Oh, that's great.
And one of the reasons was because of a father-daughter show that we did on television, where the host asked me if I would bring my daughter, knowing that she was a child out of wedlock, who I supported one thousand percent, have and always will, even being married. Though my role is a secondary one, because when two get married, in the Bible, they become one.
So I play an augmenting role, and love what I'm doing with my grandkids. But I ask her to come on this TV show with me, and and this was live. And the host asked her, and I wasn't prepared for this myself. I was trying to prepare my daughter. He asked her, "What was it like growing up in a family where your father wasn't there, knowing that you were had out of wedlock?" Kind of looked to see what she was going to say, and she simply said, "My father has always loved my mother.
He never spoke one ill word. He supported me and her to the nth degree until I got married, and I have nothing but love for my father and how he honored and loved, and loves my mother." That's beautiful.
So, Jim Daly, you know me well enough to know I don't go around trying to, and I said this earlier, to beat people over the head with the Bible. But we are to share the love of Christ, lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely. Yeah. If I understand the word correctly, and I know you do, so please correct me. Where it says our job is to tell it, the receiver's job is to receive it and believe it.
One plants a seed, another waters, but God gives the increase.
So for me, with my grandkids, where it says a good man provides for his children's children, I still have that responsibility until the day that the good Lord calls me home. And I hope that people, I respect whatever decision other people want to make. That's their life decision to make.
So please just respect where I'm coming from. I don't go around castigating anybody, beating them over the head, bringing doom and gloom on them. I simply present the truth, and it's a choice that all of us have to make. Deuteronomy 30 and 19 is pretty clear with that. Or God is what speaking through Moses when He says, "I present before you this day.
I call heaven and earth to record or record this day your choice. I present to you life or death, blessings and cursings." And He gives us the answer to the test when He says, "Choose life." Right. It's a choice that we make. Right. God doesn't condemn.
We condemn ourselves. And I pray that people will just receive the wonderful, loving intent that is being shared. But it's all of us who has a choice to make. Does that make sense, Jim? Oh, yeah.
And I think you know what it demonstrates is the idea, and what we should be full of as Christians is the attitude that we were forgiven much. That we know we're forgiven much. That we're not perfect people, and Christ died for our sins.
So why would you hold somebody else to a different standard, including your child?
Some of the best stories JB I've heard at Focus are in this area where Christian families, you know, going to church on Sunday, their seventeen-year-old daughter gets pregnant, and now it's a A catastrophe, and they've got to deal with it. But I think when it comes to life, and I know you share this, God doesn't make mistakes. Your daughter is not a mistake. Think of her life and the grandkids, and somehow God shapes all of that into good. Like Romans eight twenty eight says, all things work for good.
Are you serious? But in that moment, the dads are furious, the moms are bewildered. What do we do? And it's not what we're aiming for. Of course not.
We want what's best, but man, God will take your mess, and make it. Better make it his mess, and that's what we want. JB, before we get away, I do want to hear that story of how you came to Christ because we didn't capture that yet. What was it? You know, obviously you had your daughter out of wedlock.
You mentioned how long after did you come to Christ? What started you in a faith trajectory? In as succinct a fashion as I can, after being cut by the Atlanta Hawks. And I did get a chance the following year, when Red Arback, God bless him, asked me to come to trial for the Boston Celtics, and I was again the last person cut.
So I knew that I was going to go and pursue a career. Although he, Red Arback, wanted me to go overseas to polish my game a little bit and come back and play in the NBA, I said, No, you know, my parents worked hard for me to take advantage of this opportunity. Let's go start a game of life. But while I was home sulking the first year after being cut by the Atlanta Hawks, hiding in the house for two weeks away from my friends, who were like, "JB didn't make it in the NBA." You're kidding me. But examining, as I shared with you, the reasons why, and when I examined my own heart, I realized what I didn't do, and the life mantra, work ethic that I have.
Whereas in corporate America, they give you. Principles, if you will, to follow to be successful in corporate America. For me, they have to have a foundation in Scripture. And in Scripture, when I examine myself, Second Corinthians thirteen five says, "To examine yourself, to make certain you're walking in the faith." I wasn't there at that point clearly when I was asking Jesus into my life. I'm tooling in my little Corvette, coming home late one night after the nightclub.
A lifestyle for those several months of going to the nightclub and realizing that was not the answer. It is late at night, and I simply asked the Lord. I said, "I I know of you, but I don't know you. If you will reveal yourself to me, I will serve you." Great prayer, but check this out. The very next week, I get an invitation from some of my buddies at ex-athletes to go to yet another house party, a pajama party.
Yeah, I'm 24 years of age. A pajama party, right? But I go, and the moment I walk through the door, I realize clearly. I don't belong here. Conviction, and when I was heading home after the pajama party, boy, you, hey, it is who I am.
You pull these things out of me, so I'm blaming you for it.
Okay, getting, getting emotion about it, but it's it speaks to the depth of that question to the Lord. Because on my way home, I said, I am so sorry. I feel like I've committed high treason. Just last week, asking you to reveal yourself to me, and what do I do? I go to a pajama party.
It certainly is an honoring of you, and that began effectively a 12-year search with my mother, leading the five of us through the church route, to finally be settled into a good word-teaching church. Headed by an ex-Tuskegee airman, oh my, by the name of Bishop Clarence Givens, who taught the Word of God. I went to many a sermon where it was emotional, got me shouting. But after I left out of church, if somebody asked me what was the sermon about, I couldn't tell you. I just say it was, it was emotional.
It was good. Bishop Givens taught the Word of God. And everyone who was up under his tutelage for the years that he was ministry has the same testimony to make, and that's where I came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and gave my life to Christ, committed myself to the walk with Him, trained up under Bishop Gibbons, became a director, co-director with my wife Dorothy of the youth ministry. My wife Dorothy is another whole story. That's a whole story there.
Who. Grasp the word quicker, more deeply, and committed than me, and your boy is now a well-trained husband. Yeah, okay. But that led me down a path that I'm on and have continued on since. Does that make sense?
Totally beautiful. And what I love is, you know, I. People can complicate their spiritual journey, their faith in Christ, but the way you describe that pajama party, it was like the Holy Spirit was already present in your heart. It was happening, right, and that was that conviction that you had. Because you could have done that a month before.
You could have gone to the party and been driving home in your vet, and not think twice. Maybe a little pain, but you know, okay, I'll try to do less of that or something. But to stop that conviction and listen, yes, to the inner speaking that is there in every one of us. And when we talk about this, look, I can give a great, I think, presentation on hopefully following the model. Of what apologetics is all about—to try to answer questions for people—and there are those who are way smarter than me that can talk me under the table.
But I'm not trying to convince you using an academic argument. This is a deeply spiritual come to Jesus moment where you have to answer in your own inner heart. Is this correct? Is this true? Is there a God, the God?
If you ask the question and become familiar with the territory known as faith in Jesus Christ, we've got so many great apologists that you know, whether it's Alex McFarland, so many. Lee Strobel, his story, the case for Christ, is something that I reference in a number of my messages. Then just answer the question truthfully yourself, because it is an eternal decision. And here's the deal: when you understand that there's no such thing as death, as many people thinking were, it's the cessation of life. Try the Bible's definition of death: our spirit and souls will live on.
Eternally, the physical body may die, but as the word describes, those of us who are believers will be reunited with the spirit and soul. But eternity is either in heaven with the Lord, or as the Bible describes death, it is eternity without Jesus Christ. It is simple as that, and people may call it hogwash. Yeah, but I would certainly say do some deep, deep studying, and being honest with yourself, because the decision is an eternal one, and so many people have cutely but painfully described it this way. If you think about it, the choice is either eternity in heaven with Jesus, or in smoking, with.
The person, or the spirit you don't want to be with, perhaps just with no presence of God's character.
Somebody described that will probably be hell. That there's no love, no kindness, no good, just. No presence of God in that place, eternally, just torment. JB, this has been so good. Thank you for the time.
Thank you for being with us. Thank you for the perspective that you brought. I love it. This is all about the Lord. I wasn't sure how we would aim this.
I think the Lord knew, and He used it, and will use it according to His purposes.
So, thank you again. Thank you for your witness, for your example, your. Flying in some high air there on television through the football season, and it's just awesome to see how God is using you, and I'm sure using you in all kinds of friendships to talk with people about Him.
So, thanks. Can I say thank you to you? Oh, yeah. And the patience for this has been a long time coming. It has.
And I've been looking forward to. I don't envy the material that Scott's got to trim down. That's for sure.
Well, what a great conversation and a powerful reminder from James Brown on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. He just oozes with love for the Lord and his love for others, and I so appreciate his heart. He's one of those guys you could spend more time just sitting down talking to because he's got great stories and his heart for God is so right there on his shirt sleeve. He's reminded us that a life of influence is not measured simply by success, visibility, achieved. But by faithfulness to Christ, he emulates that so straightforwardly.
He's challenged us to model the gospel in our homes, in our work, and in the everyday conversations that God gives us. If you'd like to learn more about a relationship with Jesus Christ, I want to encourage you to read our free online booklet called "Coming Home." It tells you how to begin a journey in Jesus Christ by accepting Him as your personal Lord and Savior. That's What we've done, we're Christian ministry. I don't know how many people over the 2,000 years of history have made that commitment to Christ, but it's definitely, probably in the billions. And you think about that: what do they know that maybe you have not investigated?
And we want you to do that investigation. It's the question that people ignore. That's probably the most important question in this life. Also, if you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out our free sports. Faith audio collection with other inspiring interviews from sports icons.
Yeah, we've talked to some great ones, Jim, and that includes legendary pitcher John Smoltz and world class golfer Bernhard Langer.
So, make a long story short. About three months later, after going to more Bible studies, start reading the Bible. It was very clear to me that I had to be born again. And that I was never good enough on my own to earn my way to heaven, but Jesus did all that for me. I just had to believe in Him.
So I got on my knees, prayed the prayer, the acceptance prayer, and that emptiness that I had was gone. I asked our chaplain at the time. I said, "You know, I've prayed the prayer. You've told me what it means to be a Christian, how to walk this walk, and..." I said, but let me ask you a question. I said, what prevents me from living my life the way I want to live it?
And then, I'll have an age that I'll turn my life over to Christ. Like what? What prevents me from getting to my? Let's just say it's thirty-eight. And he gave me an answer that was real simple.
He said, nothing prevents you from getting that in your life, with one tiny exception. You may not get to your target date.
So why take that chance? And it was just the simplest connection for me to say, I'm going to put all my trust in Jesus, and I'm going to give him all the junk that I'm trying to carry in my backpack, and I'm just going to release it.
Well, maybe that's something you've decided you can wait to your 38, 48, 58. There's no guarantee you're ever going to get there.
So the question is, why not make that commitment now? If you have an appetite for godly things, but you haven't made a commitment to Christ, I would answer that question. Pronto, and you know you're not going to be giving up anything. You're going to get more in that situation.
So, most importantly, eternal life and faith in Christ and a life of peace rather than chaos. You know, I know sports fans will love to hear these great testimonies from these achievers. These are people who have spent their life honing a skill to be paid tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars to do. And you know what? That discipline requires focus and attention.
And then when they turn that on their experience with Christ, and like you heard both from John Smoltz and Bernard Langer, that reality that you can't earn it—it's a free gift from these guys who are used to earning it. Wow, that's powerful.
So sign up. It's all free. And if you can support Focus on the Family, help us bring you more great broadcasts to strengthen your. Faith, and consider making a monthly or one-time gift to help us do that. Donate today.
Find these free resources: the audio collection and the Coming Home online booklet at FocusOnTheFamily.ca, or give us a call: eight hundred the letter A in the word Family. Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup, but when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family.
It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.
