This episode of Clearview Today is brought to you by LaBlue Ultra Pure Water. What I love about LaBlue is they keep it simple. Hydrogen, oxygen, nothing else. They use a patented filtration process to remove any impurities and deliver ultra-pure water that you can trust. And best of all, they'll deliver it right to your office every month, right on time.
So order today online at LeBlue.com. That's L-E-B-L-E-U, and use promo code today, T-O-D-A-Y at checkout for 10% off. It's going to save you money, it's going to keep you hydrated, and support us here at the Clearview Today Show. Thanks for listening. Thanks to LeBlue for sponsoring today's episode.
Now let's jump in. It's easy to relate to God when we think of Him in attributes that we can understand, like love or grace or forgiveness. But how do we even begin to comprehend God's holiness? Let's unpack that together coming up right now on the Clear Read Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome to the Clearview Today studio. We're so glad you're joining us for the conversation with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
Dr. Shah, I got to tell you, I'm loving the VBS baby. You see that? This is VBS 2026, and the theme for this year's VBS at Clearview Church Hands. Get ready for it.
Is Getting to Know God. How did that work out?
Now, Dr. Shah, did we plan that? No, I think the Holy Spirit did. That's right. This VBS is not made by us.
I mean, we, of course, we purchase it, and I think it's purchased through group.
So we're giving you a shout out. That's right. That's right. Rainforest Falls. You just so happened to coincide with one of the best seasons of the Clearview Today Show ever.
Getting to know God. That's right. And Group, if you'd like to talk about sponsorship. We'd be happy to talk. Hey, today's episode is brought to you by Group.
And Group, if you want to become a Clearview Today Show sponsor, I mean, we wouldn't be opposed to having that conversation. That's right. And especially today, if this is your first time ever listening, if you're interested in sponsorship, if you just want to stay connected with what's going on here at Clearview Church in Henderson, you can always text us today, T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. Link is going to be in the description below. That's right.
That's right. We're continuing this conversation where we're getting to know. God. And this seems like a simplistic pursuit. But there is so much about God that we don't know.
Where do you even start? You start with His love, you start with His grace, forgiveness. I can understand all of those. Is that where we're going to start? No, we're actually going to start at the most central attribute, the core.
Of who God is, and that is his holiness. People either start at the love of God or they start at the creative power of God, and all those things are very important. They're very important attributes. But holiness, holiness, holiness. You know, in the book of Isaiah, when it talks about.
Those angelic beings, what comes out of their mouth is not love, love, love, or wisdom, wisdom, wisdom, or power, power, power. It is holy, holy, holy. And then in the book of Revelation, we hear about that holiness again.
So, At the core of who God is, And we're not talking about. Whether he's a spirit being, or whether he is eternal, his communicable and non-communicable attributes. We're not going into all those details right now. But where we're starting is His his primary attribute Which is His Holiness. And it is difficult for me To talk about this, I've read many books on it.
I ha I have been to gravesides of People like J C Riley, who wrote the book on holiness. Amazing works. And still, it is a concept that is so difficult. Not complex, so difficult because we are such Sinful beings. That truly explaining holiness, And truly Understanding and applying it is not easy.
It's one of those words where we say over and over again, God is holy, or the holiness of God, or we, you know, we acknowledge God's holiness, but. What is holiness truly? What does it mean to be holy? That's a word that we often use, but I feel like we use it to the point that we lose the definition of it. It's sort of like infinity, right?
Like, how can my mind grasp something that I am that fundamentally I am not? Yeah, I cannot be. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm finite. And so, when you think about infinity or infinite things, it's like my brain at a certain point stops working.
Is holiness kind of similar? Because we're fundamentally not holy? I mean, it's not like it's difficult. Like, how do you explain molecular biology or nuclear science? It's not like that.
It's just. We we are sin is so much right into our pores. It is It's part of who we are. Of course, when we're saved, we're a new creation in Christ. All things are passed away.
Does not mean that you're completely. Uh y you don't have Sin as a temptation anymore? No, of course. Of course not. We don't talk about sinless perfection.
But Sin is still so part of us that it is hard to explain holiness. I think about. Leonardo da Vinci, when he was painting The Last Supper, he had difficulty painting the faces. and then he painted them except one. And guess who he was having difficulty painting.
I would assume the one in the center, Jesus. And he did not feel worthy enough to paint the face of Jesus. It's very hard to talk about holiness because we don't feel worthy enough to do that. And if you can very glibly talk about holiness, like, yeah, holiness isn't God's holiness, and we just, it's because you truly don't understand how. How awful Sin is.
I think you're right. I think because we justify and rationalize our sin so much all our lives. Like those parts of us that we don't like, because that's just me. I'm sorry, is that offending you? I mean, okay, fine.
I mean, you know, we do things like that.
Well, let let's talk about you then. Yeah.
Somebody says, hey, that's a sin.
Okay.
Well, how about this when you do that? We quickly deflect it off ourselves. That's right. That's right. So if that's what we're gonna do.
So, I mean, we're not going to do that about love. We don't do that about Power, wisdom. But holiness, we sin. We definitely deflect it. And that is why it is hard for us sinful human beings.
To talk about the holiness of God. How do we approach this conversation? How do we begin to understand, begin to unravel this concept so that we can apply it to our lives? I would say the place to begin is actually from the ground up. I think.
I may be wrong. There may be some systematic theologians who are sitting there going, oh, you really messed it up. I think the place to begin is by understanding what sin is. And then let's talk about the holiness of God. Again, I'm not sure if that's correct or not.
But it has helped me, yeah. I think so. I think you said something when we were going through the book of Romans that has stuck with me. And I think maybe sin kind of falls in this same category. You said that as human beings.
We, our minds reject death so much that we've accepted its inevitability as just part of life. This is just a natural thing, and we've forgotten what a destructive, powerful force that death is. And so, also with sin, it's like, well, we're all sinners, you know, we all are sinners, and everybody. And so, I think that's when you said that, you know, how if you can just glibly talk about holiness, you truly don't understand the weight of sin. I think that's me.
Yeah, I think that's a lot of us. Yeah, yeah, I was holy people. I mean, God, God is holy, guys. Do you really understand what you're saying? Come on, guys.
Let's just all sing holy, holy, holy. That's my favorite hymn. I love singing them old hymns. Yeah.
And you know, one day we're going to sing that around the throne, holy forever. That's we're going to sing it. And I think I'm guilty of that, even of leading that song and leading people to sing that God is holy without truly grasping the weight and the gravity of it. Yeah, how sinful we are. We have become so used to sin.
Years ago, I was on a mission trip in the deep. Jungles of the Yucatan. This is in Mexico. And I remember this we were in this village. It's a kind of a poor village.
And and But it had nothing to do with poverty, this example. But this this little, little child, okay, she had a little piece of chicken that she was eating, and the chicken fell on the ground. Her mom had her head turned for just a minute. to talk and guess what the little child did. Picked up that chicken right off the ground.
And put it in its mouth. That is my son to a T. And then, you know, of course, there's. There's you know, gravel or whatever that was, you know, little little tiny pieces of uh dirt. She could tell something was not right.
So she takes it out, looks at it. And then put it in the back. It did not. feel right or taste right. But it went right back in the mouth.
So, also with us when it comes to sin, we know it doesn't feel right, doesn't taste right, doesn't look right. But it goes right back into our Do you think that plays into that what you were talking about? We're so used to it. Like, this is just what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to eat this thing and I'm supposed to see this through.
Maybe we're sort of conditioned to see sin the same way. Like, this is just kind of who I am. Yeah.
And everybody does it too. Yeah.
Right. That makes it fine. Everybody else is picking the chicken back off the ground to eat it.
So we're all doing this. You're doing it too. You picked it off the ground.
So I can pick it off the ground. We talked about this, like our different personalities before, like as kids. Did you want to do the right thing because it was the right thing? Or did you want to do the right thing because you're going to get in trouble? I see that in my oldest son.
My oldest son is just like me as a kid. He's like, if this is going to get me in trouble, I better not do it. It's like, no, you should not want to do it because it's the right thing. It's like, I just don't want to get caught. I don't want to get in trouble.
And so I think that's what it is. It's like, well, I'm going to sin and everybody sins.
So I'm going to get in the same amount of trouble as everybody else.
So I think it's all good.
Well, I think it's interesting you use that example because the key there is that it she knew it didn't taste right. She could tell that there was something wrong. Like, this is what I was eating, but there's something, there's something wrong here. This isn't the way it ought to be. But I'm going to push past that.
I'm going to power through that. And we sort of deaden our. Sensitivity of the Holy Spirit, where sin is concerned, by doing the same thing. Yeah, and it's a sinful nature, just feeds into that. And to extend the analogy, just like you mentioned a few moments ago, if you see other people doing that, your teachers, your parents, your.
Your uh idols. Right? Your friends, if you see them doing that. Even your spiritual leaders, church pastors and Sunday school leaders, and student pastors, if you see them doing this, then you go, They do it. I can speak to that personally.
When my dad, I remember growing up as a kid, my dad would, we would go to the gas station, we'd get snacks. He tossed the paper right out the window. No, zero. And I mean, zero idea until I was dating Ellie.
So I'm in like college. I had no clue people took that as seriously as they did. I tossed trash out the window. She was like, What are you doing? I was like, I'm driving.
She was like, No, you just took trash out the window. I was like, Yeah, I'm done with it. And seriously, because I saw my dad do it, I assumed this is what people do. People do. And I went most of my life without realizing how seriously people took something as common as littering.
Yeah.
So, but God still calls sin sin. That's right. So we must try to understand this because. Holiness is the centerpiece of God's attributes. It takes the number one place, the first place when it comes to God's attributes, His holiness.
So if you start with anything else, You're going to have a building, but it's not going to be stable. It's not going to be according to code. It will fall apart. Begin with holiness. And then you can build.
And so, holiness. What can we say? But what does the word of God say? You know, when it comes to holiness, I cannot just look at creation. I can just look at the sun, moon, and stars, or look at the The the the Beautiful mountains and the green valleys, or the seas, or the oceans, or animals, or human beings, and go, Oh, there is the holiness of God.
I can see God's creative power. I can see God's power. I can see God's wisdom. But holiness Is something we find in the scripture. It's something that has to be revealed to us on purpose.
It has to be.
Now, we can also bring in the whole idea of conscience and we can try to make it fit. And I think it does. But not directly. If you want direct understanding of the holiness of God, you have to go to the scriptures. And what does it say?
It tells us many things, but the first thing it tells us is that God wanted us. to know him by that attribute. That's the one he chose. That's the one he chose. So if you go to the Old Testament, you go to Joshua 24, 19.
It says But Joshua said to the people You cannot serve the Lord. For he is a loving God. No. You tricked me. For he is a wise one.
No, Dasher didn't say that either. No. It says he is a holy God. That's right. You cannot serve him because he's a holy God.
That's the flagship attribute. That's the one that we need to associate most closely with God. That doesn't mean that God doesn't have other attributes. Right. But the primary one, the central one, is his holiness.
That's right. Yeah, I think that says something. You know, you want to get to know God.
Well, what did God say about himself? Primarily, he wants people to know how holy he is. That's right. Why do you think that's the one that he chose, Dr. Shah?
Because, I mean, there's so many things. And I'm going to come back to that in a few moments. But here, if just so since you asked that question, is because God's holiness is God's perfection, God's righteousness. And if God sees us to be righteous, everything falls apart. One sin is like that one breach in the wall, it's going to collapse.
Is that that one hole in the dam, just one tiny place where it may a little bit of water may seep out?
Well, it's a matter of time. You know, I went to a college called Toco Falls College and they knew those of you who are a little older may remember The damn break in Georgia. Mm-hmm. This was the one. and and there there was a little breach in the dam.
And it had rained before, and the water was kind of overflowing, and all that. They knew something was not right. The dam is going to. going to burst. And it did.
That one tiny breach led to the entire dam collapsing, and with it Many people died. Wow. Families died. Led to incredible devastation.
So, also with the holiness of God, it is that one attribute that is like, if that goes wrong, All these other things are as important as they are. They cannot remain. Habakkuk chapter 1 verse twelve says Are you not from everlasting, O Lord my God? My Holy One. Holy One.
Yeah.
Everlasting.
So when he talks about the eternity or the eternality of God. It's about the holiness of God. But I mean, this is just an Old Testament thing, right? Like, this is something that, yes, God, God made a huge deal about His holiness and His perfection and His separation from humanity in that way, but Jesus kind of changed the game, right? Like, we don't really hear the holiness in the New Testament.
Yeah, God, now God's love, yeah, He's love and He's grace and He's forgiveness and He's accepting and He's on or something. I'm just you know, I'm just trying to get ahead of the comments before they come in because you know there's people just gonna say, Oh, yeah, definitely. The Old Testament talks a lot about the holiness of God. Like the book of Isaiah talks about the holiness about 30 times, just in that one book, 30 times about the holiness of God. But New Testament.
Repeatedly find that concept of holiness of God. Let's begin right in the beginning. Luke chapter 1:35. And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you. Talking to Mary.
And the power of the highest will overshadow you, therefore, also that holy one. Who is to be born will be called the Son of God, the Holy One. Did you know that? Not the loving one, the kind one, the merciful one. The the The wise one, but the holy one.
Jesus was called the holy one. Called the Holy One from the moment he was born, yeah, before he was born. Yeah, when his birth was announced, he is the holy one of God.
Well, it's the foundation of what he would come to do, yeah. Like, he's the holy one, it's like it's setting the stage for him to even appear, right?
So, it's it's it's do you think that's that's on purpose to connect him with the father? Yes, of course, yeah, of course. Course, we're talking about his full deity, and definitely is taking it back to the central attribute of the Godhead, which is he is holy. You know, even if the concept is uh even if the if the word is not used The concept is, right? You know, in the Old Testament Kodesh in the New Testament haggios.
Even if those words are not used, the concept is everywhere. Let's just focus on the New Testament. We find here in 1 John chapter 1, verse 5. This is the message we have heard from him. and declare to you that God is a light, and in Him Is no darkness at all.
We're not talking about The physical Aspect of light, like light that comes on, that, that, that. that we see uh as the sun rises. Right? Or the light that comes on when you Flip the switch. We're talking about light and darkness as in Holiness and sin.
In God, there is no sin. Darkness here is not about the color. Darkness has to do with no light. I think about that famous passage in Revelation where all the creatures are around the throne and they're singing, holy, holy, holy. It's always funny because I think we do this thing where that's in the future.
That's the ideal. That's the place, that's the destination. But on the journey there. You know, we we are growing and we're learning and all this stuff is true, but We forget to pursue holiness here on earth. Yeah, we think it's because it's in heaven.
Holiness is in heaven, and I'll be holy then.
Well, and it can be easy in that conversation to say, I will, uh, I'll never be holy, I'll never achieve holiness because I'm an imperfect human.
So, why even bother with the pursuit? But, Dr. Shah, the holiness of God, what does that mean for us in the Christian life? How does that impact the way we live day to day?
Well, let me just say this: you know, we talked about all the different attributes of God: love, wisdom. Power, all that. They cannot exist without the holiness. or they will not make sense. Without the holiness, for example.
Oh, people talk so much about the love of God, but the love of God does not mean much unless we understand the holiness of God.
Now, stay with me on this one. Unless you understand the holiness of God, you truly cannot grasp the love of God. He said, What do you mean? When you truly understand how much you and I are separated from God because of sin. Then we can understand What John 3:16 means, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.
For God's soul. It's not like sola. Here, the word so in Greek implies more in this manner.
So don't think of it as the other. Nuance of God soul loves you. No, no, it's not, that's not there, but still. God's love is manifested in the fact that He gave His Son. Why did He give His Son?
Because you and I can never have a relationship with God. We are separated because of sin.
Someone has to die. Sin has to die. And since you are full of sin, you have to die. But if you die, there is no relationship. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So someone died. And who is a someone? The Son of God. Who was slain before the foundation of the world? Before he came, people waited on his coming.
Since he came, we look back in faith at his coming. But either way, That love was manifested so that we can be reconciled to God who is holy. We need that. Yeah, we need that separation to understand the gravity of his love. Because if I'm a sinner and I'm doomed to hell, then of course him sending his son is the most loving thing that he could ever do.
But if I close that gap and I'm like, you know, I'm a good person, I go to church on Sundays, I help people, me and God, we're really not that different. It's like, yeah, it makes sense that I guess he kind of loves me, but that love is now watered down. Yeah.
Well, his love is born out of his holiness. I think that's the thing that, that, Man, I get stuck on so many times and stuck in a good way, just amazed that God, before the world was created, had already planned that Jesus was going to die. Yeah.
The lamb slain before the foundation of the world, Dr. Shaw, you just said that. That's the thing that blows my mind so much: Jesus, before the world was made, Had already planned to die for the sins that I'm going to commit tomorrow. That just boggles my brain to think about God in His love and His holiness.
Sovereignly ordained that entire trajectory of the world so that it was always headed to it. It's a great way to say that.
Well, yeah, that's what we said. That's what we said at the very top of the episode: this can be a difficult thing for us to understand. Because I think, like you said, Dr. Show, when you really get at the heart at it, you see how complex and at the same time, how simple God's holiness really is. If I want to spend the next few moments, and maybe it'll take us another show to do this.
But what is the holiness of God? What does it mean? I mean, we've spent a lot of time explaining why it is a central attribute. We've spent a lot of time explaining why how much the Bible talks about the holiness of God. We've spent a lot of time.
But what exactly is it?
Well There are several things. First things first, it means that God is absolutely. Absolutely Pure. Absolutely pure. In I John 1.5, This is the message we have heard from Him and declared to you that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all, no darkness, none.
Give me an example. How do you feel when you get one spot? on your shirt. It's always a white shirt. And it's always when I'm eating something red, like spaghetti.
It's usually never at home either. It's always when I'm out or I have to go do something afterwards. There's a funeral in an hour that we work the premium. Right on the shirt. Man.
I'm about to eat it. I feel it. I'm like, I'm going to get it on me. It's coming. And then Sometimes I notice it in the right away.
Sometimes it is like after the fact. As I'm walking, I was like, are you serious? It's a bad feeling. Yeah.
And with age, I'm doing the things that I used to laugh when I would see some senior adults do that. They put a big bib up down me. How dorky does that look?
Now I do it. You make your napkin real big and just put it in the bag. Let that be a lesson, listeners. Never say never. Don't point your fingers and make fun of other people because the same things might happen to you.
But God's shirt, you're never going to find even a single spot on it. That's right. You know, the Old Testament laws, people sometimes talk about all those purification. The washing and the feasts, and how they were supposed to clean this and clean that, and have this vessel, and that they're going. It's like, what a what a what a silly stuff.
No, all those things were done. to teach the people How holy God is. Yeah.
Like like this mug right here. If I were to tell you, let me just say you guys, there's one non-negotiable. This cup has to be handled with care. And not anybody can handle it. You have to wear gloves.
You have to do this. You have to do that. You have to wash it a certain way. You have to dry it a certain way. You have to store it a certain way.
I mean, there's so much. Uh He'd be like, My goodness. That's a special mug. Yeah.
Why so much? Because I'm saying it is. You know, think about those temple vessels. What was so holy about them? I mean, they were just made out of metal, metal that came from the ground, metal that had to be to sh you know, melted and shaped and and and and you know, cooled and everything in in somebody's Shop.
Why it's so special?
Well, it wasn't. But it was meant to teach the people that God's holiness Is is like that.
So you cannot touch it only the priest can. But the priest has to wash their hands a certain way, and they have to wash this a certain way have to store it a certain place. This is not an ordinary vessel. It is to teach the separation between sinful me and holy God. Yeah.
So, the various offerings in the Old Testament were also meant to emphasize the holiness of God. You see, There are no degrees of sin. There are degrees of consequences. Yeah.
Great, great point. Yeah.
So many times we try to classify, like, well, this isn't as bad as the other one, or this, you know, at least I'm not doing this. But sin, there is no. Yeah, it's consequences.
So yeah there are Differences, but it's not degrees. One sin, one Silly, innocent Harmless white lie. Will send you to hell. You say, Well, I don't believe that.
Well, I'm sorry, you sound Islamic to me. You know, because that's Islamic theology. It's like, what do you mean someone has to die for your sins?
Well, someone has to. That's not. You don't need that. God is merciful, compassionate. He I hate to break it to you.
Yeah.
Your God is not holy enough. That's right. I agree. That's a great point. To use your analogy, too, Dr.
Shaw, I mean, if we think back to the imagery of a dam, you can either have a big chunk taken out of the dam, or you can have just this small crack that over time is going to allow that water to seep through and then burst forth.
So, even that small, little insignificant crack weak point. Is gonna cause or think about, you know, if that analogy proves a little hard to understand, think about a little tiny virus. Yeah.
How much or a cell, like a cancer? Yeah.
How many do you need to finally take your life? You don't need tons of them. Just a tiny little thing gets into your system And that's all it takes. That's right. You know, one sin.
Once sin Adam and Eve had to leave Eden. One sin sin Cain and his descendants were cursed. One sin kept Moses from going into the promised land. One sin Elijah's servant got leprosy. One sin, David had to bury his son, and three more died.
One sin. One sin in Ananias and Sapphira. Were killed on the spot. One sin. And those things are an example for us.
You say, well, people sin all the time, tongues, and nothing happens to them. Right. Because God is gracious. But he has given you an example back here to say, that's how much I take it seriously. Wake up.
That's right. Wake up. If you have questions about what that means, you can write into the show. We'd love to talk to you some more about that. We are always here to pray alongside you and to help you in your journey with God.
Thanks so much for listening today, for joining the conversation. We hope to see you on tomorrow's episode as we continue our conversation about who God is and how it impacts our lives. That's right. And again, if today's your first time, or even if today's not your first time, but you haven't joined the Clearview Today family, text today, T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. If you text in for the very first time, we're going to give you a little gift.
If you want to click that join the family link in the description below, we're going to send you another gift. Again, we just want to be able to connect with you, know how these episodes are working in your ministry, your church, your Christian life.
So make sure you connect with us after the show today. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
